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Personally, I enjoyed this video greatly and though I do not necessarily agree with everything he says 100%, I believe he makes some fantastic points that I think people could perhaps benefit from hearing. Proceed at your own risk. He speaks some hard truths and you may find some of it discouraging. I would urge you to stick through it until the end rather than abandoning it halfway through because he said something you don't agree with. If you did watch it all the way through, I'd love to hear your thoughts.
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:iconmiyayoshi:
MiyaYoshi Featured By Owner Jul 21, 2017  Hobbyist Digital Artist
The part about ideas being (practically) worthless struck me hardest, because I've been preaching that for YEARS to people sidling up to me with their story/art/whatever ideas. "Is this good?" "Will it work?" I dunno, man, it'll ALL work--or it all sucks. It's 100% about what you DO with the idea, but hardly anybody wants to go past that point, because it's too much work.
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:iconbjpentecost:
BJPentecost Featured By Owner Jul 22, 2017  Professional Digital Artist
Indeed. I know that feeling all too well.
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:iconanotalenthack:
anotalenthack Featured By Owner Jul 9, 2017
"You want to be a master? Practice, practice practice."
~ Atr. Miyamoto Musashi
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:icontinselfire:
Tinselfire Featured By Owner Jul 15, 2017
"Carpentry must be planed, not only polished where it appears unpleasing."

For someone who bludgeoned a man to death at age twelve, Musashi was a very wise man - not to mention a very accomplished artist. It is no wonder the Book of Five Rings is nearly the only book on working philosophy that has survived from this time.

That the Hagakure continues to be read is however a sad, sad mystery.
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:iconbjpentecost:
BJPentecost Featured By Owner Jul 9, 2017  Professional Digital Artist
Indeed.
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:iconrujiidragon:
rujiidragon Featured By Owner Jul 8, 2017  Student General Artist
just want to say, I'm listening to this all the way through now and holy crap, what on earth was I thinking! Only 20 minutes in and I love it. So many of his stories were very similar to my own experience from the beginning to even currently its scary! I completely disagree with my previous comment now. Can't wait to listen to the rest. 
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:iconbjpentecost:
BJPentecost Featured By Owner Jul 8, 2017  Professional Digital Artist
:) Good! I'm glad. I hope it helps.
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:icontinselfire:
Tinselfire Featured By Owner Jul 7, 2017
While I am not a professional artist, and so cannot speak from experience for all claims made, those for which I can are utterly true and brutally so - and yet, not once does he go over the top to become anything but carefully encouraging.
Come to think of it, his name and voice sound familiar, and believe I may have seen another of his videos before. If so, his short and bittersweet advice on selecting works for master studies was quite memorable: "The longer dead, the better."

His thoughts on talent were a lot more elaborate, and a lot more practically useful than most I have heard. I do unfortunately not remember her name, but it is very similar to an author's essay on the relation between talent and success, including among many other things the aphorism that "talent is to success what phlogiston is to fire". A similar sentiment, but she came dangerously close to claiming talent is an invention by and for people who have no interest in art, and neither in understanding the effort behind a single finished work.

Personally I find his thoughts on learning the overwhelmingly most important part of the video, because - while he does nit use the exact words - it explicitly states one of the most powerful motivators we as humans have. And which is yet so easily forgotten.
Learning is fun.
There is, to the best of my knowledge and under anything but extraordinary circumstances, *nothing* that gets the dopamine flowing quite as the feeling of learning more about something we are interested in. No less important, he emphasizes mistakes as a learning experience.

When it comes to the claim that everyone has the potential for creativity, I understand in context he is concerned only with the relation between present talent and skills to learn, but nevertheless I must unfortunately disagree - if fortunately only in a more general sense. One will obviously not find them on Deviantart or a similar platform, but far more people than one would hope are utterly disinterested or even violently belittling of any creative endeavour - not only for themselves, but for others. Considering artists have been viewed quite variously and without much say in the matter historically - especially harsh for actors up until a hundred years ago - this is perhaps not so strange to think. But for a struggling artist - not only struggling to learn, but to find an audience - the impression that the world is against them is sadly not entirely an illusion.

When it comes to compliments and criticism, I could not agree more. We are after all human adults: While we still have our capricious hormones and cannot exactly plug or unplug our synapses on the fly, we are endowed with reason and some degree of self-policing - receiving and digesting critique should rightly be considered a basic skill. His thoughts on compliments were food for thought (perhaps I should consider watching my language in the future), and on criticism as well, although in that area he did not offer much that was new. I can also confirm that no judges compare to children - they will soundly criticise many things adults have learned to ridicule or fear.
Perhaps I am biased in this matter as I have a personally strong preference for verbose commentary, rather too much than too little. I try to motivate compliments, perhaps connect to a common subject, and likewise motivate critcism - if about a specific point, with the question if I may have mistsken the intent. No wonder I enjoy his arguments: A compliment without context or specific detail relating to the work, no matter how well-meaning, should rightly go into one ear and out the other before it settles in the veins.
While not directly related to the video, Deviantart is overall not a good platform for critique. Not because there is none to be found, but because a lot if the mechanisms encourage wordless acknowledgement with minimal interaction. Save for one llama received from an artist I admire very greatly, I would much prefer a single meaninglessly scathing comment as "furries suck and you suck and you should drown in a car fire" over another wordless camelid. At least enough of the former might in time make an amusing compilation.

I apologize if this grimoire if a comment veered somewhat from the subject at times, but this was a very exhaustive video, certainly with many things worthy of consideration that I have either missed, or might discover in time.
It is a rare gem, and you have my thanks for sharing it.
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:iconbjpentecost:
BJPentecost Featured By Owner Jul 8, 2017  Professional Digital Artist
I'm glad you enjoyed it and you have nothing to apologize for. Reading what you have to write is always a treat. I've become so accustomed to "nice work" and "good job" comments that seeing one of yours is a joy. As it is, I agree with your contentions, especially about DA not being a great place for critique. A lot of the people who leave critiques aren't actually interested in helping artists grow, just in making themselves look and feel important or in taking an artist down a peg.
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:iconrunewuff:
runewuff Featured By Owner Jul 7, 2017  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
It was good - some fun metaphors along the way, but it meshed with my worldview, that ANYONE (including YOU) can get better at whatever they practice. I felt like I was listening to a (colorful and entertaining) Captain Obvious.

Due to early talent in writing, I'm used to thinking in terms of being a writer (you start with a 1st draft, you revise it as many times as you have to) When Inspiration or "The Muse" hands you something, take it as a 1st draft - the difference between the amateur with a script idea and a professional - is the professional has a process for handling a rough draft and reworking it, the amateur does not.

Laughed at his story of copying the "talented kid's" work - as a rule, when I trace, (IF I trace) it's PRACTICE. That shit never, ever sees the light of day - if it doesn't end up in the dustbin! However, the story tells WHY he became an artist. He had the competitive drive to "win" at art from an early age.

Compliments being poison - oooooh yeah! I knew that was coming, learned it the hard way. Criticism and failure makes me burn with desire. I will wield pencil like a Samurai. Compliments and success make me a fat, lazy kittypet.

...it's not just limited to creative endeavors. In college I ran into people who thought they had no "talent" at math and therefore didn't try to learn it, coasting through early classes and peeling off for (what they thought) were easy, math-light degrees. Where I believed I could get better and Trained Hard like it was Dragonball Z and I was in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber.
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:iconbairactar:
Bairactar Featured By Owner Jul 6, 2017
Thank you for linking the video.
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:iconjames-is-james:
James-Is-James Featured By Owner Jul 5, 2017  Hobbyist General Artist
Ooh, too long! Not enough lifespan to invest.
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:iconrujiidragon:
rujiidragon Featured By Owner Edited Jul 5, 2017  Student General Artist
Oh wow! Haven't seen it, but personally I've come to give up on trying to be a concept artist or illustrator, but man I think something that irritates me so much is when peoples only art advice is "ya just gotta work hard." or "show up" as he says, but work hard on what? I've been practicing for years and I looked back at some of my old studies today and found I was better a year ago than I am now. But I've been putting in more hours than ever! What did I do wrong? :( Art is such a vague goal its hard to know what to aim for unlike cooking, sports, or going to a job where there is a definitive process, I would do anything to learn just what to practice, have someone to tell me what I'm missing or give advice on my mistakes. If I know from the get go I'm going to do a still life I'm motivated, but just "draw a lot", I'm stuck every time.  

Listening though it a little, I have to say almost everything I heard I respectfully disagree with.
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:iconbjpentecost:
BJPentecost Featured By Owner Jul 6, 2017  Professional Digital Artist
Well, sorry you feel that way but I agree with most of what he says. If you don't know how to self-guide, you may benefit from art lessons or even art school- that is, if you actually want to. It can become expensive and it won't benefit you unless you're really very determined.

 
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:iconrujiidragon:
rujiidragon Featured By Owner Jul 6, 2017  Student General Artist
I do agree with self guiding (thats how I got the "skills" I have now,) but from what I heard I guess it was more his tone I was against than the message, I just felt like he was a bit over the top for my taste, like it was his way or the high way. 

As for schools, I have taken lessons, but man none helped. :( I have too many stories of classes I went to where the skills never transferred or the teacher didn't give critiques. And none I've found teach what I want to learn. I'm determined like crazy, but if theirs one thing I've learned in my journey is, I'm stupid! If I was doing something right, I honestly would have found the answer by now or at the least feel like I'm on the right path. I think jeff watts put it best and I'll try to paraphrase. try learning a language in an area where no one else speaks or teaches it and your learning it all on your own, have no idea how to pronounce the words and your goal is to be fluent at it. Its about the same with art. In my area theirs almost no good artists to study from and I can't travel so going to an art school is impossible. 
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:iconbjpentecost:
BJPentecost Featured By Owner Edited Jul 6, 2017  Professional Digital Artist
The ultimate lesson I have learned about art is that every artist has to find out what works for him or her. There is no "one size fits all" solution. So maybe this guy's tack just isn't for you. That's fine.

Though, for the record, I think you're being quite overhard on yourself, bordering on silly. I looked through your gallery and your artwork is fantastic! Your sketchwork blows mine out of the damn water. You very clearly have both talent and skill. I have no doubt you're fully capable of achieving whatever you want in terms of art. You may need to go about it in some peculiar, unique way but if you want it, you can do it.

I'm really not blowing smoke either. Your poses are dynamic and fluid. Your linework is great. You make some interesting anatomy choices but for the most part, it looks believable. I think I have some vague memory of telling you this stuff before... but I'm not sure. Either way, I absolutely believe you can improve if you want to. You've clearly got that spark.
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:iconrujiidragon:
rujiidragon Featured By Owner Jul 7, 2017  Student General Artist
When I look through my gallery I honestly feel like I'm not being hard on myself enough! lol. I think I just get upset that when I look at my work and when I compare it to the artists I want to be like I just don't see any comparison. (looking at the past few images I just cringe in all honesty lol.) And even with master studies, they often leave me feeling lesser of my work. I really appreciate your kind words and I think you have in the past told me that my sketches were good. I'm very honored to hear it from you as well at your level and its encouraging to know you think I can get there. Its just frustrating to me that with my things that I'm bad at, I really don't know how to improve or practice it (even with going on tons of art blogs, videos and googling in vein.) and recently with going on streams quite a few artists I know really don't know how they practiced. I just feel I don't know what I'm doing and fear I'm going in the wrong direction. 


Something I think you may enjoy, I thought this interview was very inspiring to me. www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Var92… Its pretty long as well but I've watched it at least 5 times already and it encourages me every time. 
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:iconbjpentecost:
BJPentecost Featured By Owner Jul 8, 2017  Professional Digital Artist
"When I look through my gallery I honestly feel like I'm not being hard on myself enough!"

Is it possible that's your problem? Maybe you're making yourself so anxious that you can't move forward because you've become paralyzed with fear of failure? Just a thought, I know several artists who have fallen into this trap.

Question: How would you like to improve? What do you feel needs improvement in your work? What do you want your artwork to look like?

As to the video, I'm watching it now. I'll let you know what I think.
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:iconrujiidragon:
rujiidragon Featured By Owner Jul 8, 2017  Student General Artist
I think fear of failure is definitely a part of it! Especially when I go into a sketchbook that has a few good drawings in it, I feel a little scared to draw in it honestly because I don't want to ruin the book. (though I counter that by having several books that I keep at a time.) And in digital because seeing all of my old work discourages me so much.

As for what I feel needs improvement, thats where its a bit shaky for me. I personally feel composition, anatomy, color, value, edge, perspective, shape and making an image look "done". But it such a large list of things to improve on, I don't know where or how to start.

As for what I want my work to look like, I really would like for it to look realistic, with slight exaggerated proportions, fun shapes, colors and be attractive. Western realism with eastern appeal for a lack of a better term. I have a huge list of artists I look up to but they are a bit hard to recommend since most of their gallery is nsfw. 

I hope you enjoy it! I Finished watching the video you recommended and I got a lot out of it! Another resource I'm thinking of going to is the watts atelier www.wattsatelier.com/course-pr… So far the only thing holding me back is the cost and making an account. 

I really appreciate you reading and commenting!
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:iconcatcouch:
CatCouch Featured By Owner Jul 5, 2017  Professional Digital Artist
I know exactly what you mean by not knowing what to study. There are definite walls I hit where I don't know what to do to get my skills to the next level. You're right that there doesn't seem to be a set process you go through like training for a sport. I have art books by Andrew Loomis and such but it's still hard to figure out what the next goal for myself should be. It's like, cool, figure and anatomy studying. Now what? I'm doing a lot of fumbling in the dark with my art but it's still working so maybe that's part of the journey.

I also notice and beat my self up when I think my previous years art was better than my newer creations. Weird how that happens.
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:iconrujiidragon:
rujiidragon Featured By Owner Jul 5, 2017  Student General Artist
Exactly! I feel in the past year I've been constantly hitting a wall and no matter how much I study, practice and throw all my time into I can't get over it. I feel like those who only say "art is just hard work" is a survivors bias, sure they put in a lot of time, but hey, so have I! Whats so frustrating is I know what I want, I just don't know how to get there and I can't find a mentor. And with all of the art programs out there its almost making it harder. Sure its nice to have lots of people teaching art but its like going on a road trip and suddenly your given 30 roads to choose from rather than just 1 or 2. How are you supposed to know which one to commit to?

 I've seen and read the loomis books, hogarth and bridgeman but I really don't get the hype, I was still just as clueless as to what to do after copying them and reading them. And sticking with a sports analogy, I feel like I want to be a swimmer but all I can find are arm exercises and running coaches. On one hand theirs people who say "get out of your comfort zone and draw something else!" and on the other "Just stay at it and master this one thing." I'm really at a loss of what to do, I'm putting in more time than ever why is my art from a year ago look better and why do I feel just as lost? I feel like I'm living proof of hard work gone wrong. All I know is I'm completely dissatisfied with everything I do, sure its fun to make it, but boy do I hate to look.
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:iconcatcouch:
CatCouch Featured By Owner Jul 5, 2017  Professional Digital Artist
This is a pretty interesting listen. The showing up part is exactly right. I definitely catch myself sliding while waiting for "inspiration", like, all the time.

I don't know if I agree that you shouldn't act on inspiration. Getting something down is pretty important for me so I have something to build off of when I hunker down to draw again. It almost seems at odds with the comments about embracing mistakes. I thought I wasn't supposed to be afraid of mistakes? So why would I be afraid to put down my awesome inspiration?

I do like the idea of mistakes being part of a map. Mapping out an idea, including all the right and wrong turns, gives you more valuable information that can be applied to the next idea.

The compliments versus criticism part is pretty obvious but I have learned from how people react to my art that it's a pretty messy situation. I tend to strive for validation. I used to think the more people who like my art the more successful that piece was. Looking at how some of my most successful pieces are some of my lower art, I get conflicted on what's worth the time. A massive multi-month painting no one cares about or a simple sexy piece of fan art? What's better? I guess I'll just try to do both and see if I can manage it time-wise.

I've also had criticism that's just so unhelpfully wrong it makes me angry. I used to ask for critiques all the time but the more popular I got the more negative and spiteful some of them became.

I had one person imply my mistakes were because of sexism or something and I should consider peoples feelings before I draw naked women, you know, because my art and DA as a whole are sexist, her words. This person also said I like to see women contorted in pain and I get off to it because of anatomy errors in one piece. The problem in that situation was I was being judged by the critic, not just my art and it's hard to not fight back, especially since it's part of a much larger cultural fight.

Useful criticism can be hard to come by in this era of sensitivity to the representation of women in art. Lots of misinformed people tearing art down thinking they're helping fight discrimination.

I tend to look at compliments as encouragement to keep trying and criticism as how to keep learning. Feedback as a whole is a good feeling. Whether people like or hate my art, it's still feedback so I know people are paying attention.
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:iconrunewuff:
runewuff Featured By Owner Edited Jul 8, 2017  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Sorry for butting my not-half-as-eloquent head in here, but this exchange was so interesting I had to check your gallery, and see what was up. Yes, there are a lot of naked (cat)girls. I can see how that might disturb someone, especially here on DA, which tends to have a "ewww, nudity!" segment of the population. (I've seen art tamer than yours censored... or the nude version held for ransom on Patreon.) [Cash Register Sound] But I'd say you put genuine art in your artistic nudity, interesting color palettes, creative composition, backgrounds. Some of the poses (mainly the earlier work down at the bottom of the gallery) seemed "off" to my not-artist's eye, if I had to point a finger it would be at weight distribution, maybe? (I'm no expert!) "This person also said I like to see women contorted in pain and I get off to it because of anatomy errors in one piece" seems to me an "epic burn" - in the style of"Yo Momma so fat..." jokes, a "Yo art so bad..." joke? Not to be taken seriously.
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:iconcatcouch:
CatCouch Featured By Owner Jul 8, 2017  Professional Digital Artist
I'm used to the usual "your art sucks, nudity is bad" comments. I got so many of those on my Undertale art, including a few "you need to die" gems! The holocaust came up recently in a comment too. I've even had to contact DA directly about banning a person who created multiple accounts to trash me week after week. I guess it shows people are paying attention to my art!

While I'm well aware of my anatomy issues and am (slowly) improving the person in question who commented on the sexism stuff was not a joke like that. I really shouldn't have responded to the person once I looked at their gallery and saw this "sexism bingo card" linked here: DA Sexism Bingo

While I think it's worth discussing I just truly don't agree with how this person goes about it. My main gripe being how they had a definition of sexism that was quite broad and I don't think they considered how many people would disagree with it, couple that with the condescending tone of the bingo card and I think we can guess why there is so much fighting on the internet.

I guess the issue here was obvious, I like a certain type of sexy fan service art. They considered it sexist and there for flawed, read over the bingo card to see what I mean. They're not going to understand why I like the type of art I do. I mean, you can't force your art opinions on to others. It's art. Anyway, it lead to a lengthy discussion that rapidly became hostile. You can read it here if you want, it's pretty entertaining! Maybe...

comments.deviantart.com/1/6217…

To be clear, the anatomy problems really stemmed from repeatedly reworking to pose, it was one of the harder commissions I've done due to the commissioner wanting me to undo things pretty often. The pose is pretty questionable, I just don't think it's as broken as it was made out to be. I've only had two people point it out out of all the sites I've posted it on.

I know I will be a lot smarter about how I have these conversations in the future. I'm sure you can see from just glancing at the journal on my page I do converse on weighty issues like this. Fighting gets us nowhere, I'll be picking my battles better.
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:iconrunewuff:
runewuff Featured By Owner Jul 10, 2017  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Huh. That was less dumb and hostile than I imagined... actually all parties were reasonably polite! (I've seen much worse in terms of flamewars... in cesspools of websites That Must Not Be Named.) ...if throwing in excessive links to tumblr and other causes in that way modern liberals tend to (example: LGBTQAI+) though that is a whole other can of worms. Focus, people!

My take on that Sexism Bingo is the person seems to have a very particular set of things they'd like to see in art. That's not a problem - go commission someone your idea of a female character, I say! The problem is not thinking of it as "their thing" and seeing this highly specific checklist as The Universal Truth. Assuming ALL art must therefore cater to their tastes. (actually quite a wide problem in entertainment and reactions to it nowadays...)

And no patience for the thought that this particularly awful pose might be the end result of a Commission From Hell - theoatmeal.com/comics/design_h…
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:iconcatcouch:
CatCouch Featured By Owner Jul 11, 2017  Professional Digital Artist
I guess it's polite by internet standards as in we didn't just scream insults at each other and get banned. That's classic internet debate!

I just have a low tolerance for the pushy kind of progressives because I've been beat around by them for about 5 years now. I tried talking about representation of women in games back in 2012 and it was frustrating.

One of the first people I talked to told me all art is objectification because it's an object you look at. Like, the canvas a woman is painted on is an object designed for the viewer to leer at. Women in art are, therefore, objectified in a literal sense and it's offensive. It's pretty sad if that's the education you're getting. She did make a big deal about her gender studies degree, IIRC.

Like what you like but don't try to ruin what you don't. I can't believe this is even a real, multi-year debate, if being called sexist over and over can be called debate. Not everyone is like that but the loudest tend to be and they get the coverage, unfortunately.

That comic is surprisingly accurate for a few commissions I've had. I came real close to quitting one and refunding the person just to make it stop. The worst is not telling me a massive part of the commission until it was way too late to do. I'm surprised they didn't think I needed all the information before I started.
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:iconbjpentecost:
BJPentecost Featured By Owner Edited Jul 6, 2017  Professional Digital Artist
>>>I've also had criticism that's just so unhelpfully wrong it makes me angry. I used to ask for critiques all the time but the more popular I got the more negative and spiteful some of them became.

Eeeeeeyyup. I think once you get to a certain level of popularity, some bitter, jealous assholes who have no self-esteem because they haven't accomplished anything with their lives just want to take you down a peg to make themselves feel better. I get those every once in a while. My favorite are the bitchy little whiners who are mad because I won't paint what they want me to. Ugh.

I don't have a problem with critique at all but the point of actual critique is supposed to be to help the artist grow, not as an excuse to act like a nincompoop.

>>>I had one person imply my mistakes were because of sexism or something and I should consider peoples feelings before I draw naked women, you know, because my art and DA as a whole are sexist, her words. This person also said I like to see women contorted in pain and I get off to it because of anatomy errors in one piece. The problem in that situation was

Oh lordy... I looked through your gallery, did not see any sexism. I think that person is just being hypersensitive or maybe even misdirecting her frustrations at you. Even if you did like to see women contorted in pain, I wouldn't necessarily call that sexist. Some people are into that. As long as it's/you're not harming any actual women, I have 0 problems with it. But it just sounds to me like she's lashing out at you because she's hypersensitive.

>>>I was being judged by the critic, not just my art and it's hard to not fight back, especially since it's part of a much larger cultural fight.

I think I know what you mean. I hate that everything has devolved into a NO U battle or a tug of war. It's obnoxious. It's frustrating that people on different sides of these arguments won't listen to each other or acknowledge that both sides have legitimate complaints and not-so-legitimate complaints. I wonder if it's really always been this way and it's only being made more apparent by the presence of social media.

>>>Useful criticism can be hard to come by in this era of sensitivity to the representation of women in art. Lots of misinformed people tearing art down thinking they're helping fight discrimination.

Indeed. Really what they're doing is making things worse. Mind you, I am a feminist through and through but more importantly, I am an egalitarian which necessarily means I'm also a men's rights activist. So I get shit on from all sides of this battle. What both sides fail to see is that many of their behaviors are very self-destructive towards their causes. For example, if I, as a woman, want to explain to a man some aspect of what it's like to be a woman that may not be readily apparent to him, what's the best way to go about that?

(a) Be indignant and condescending.
(b) Assume he wouldn't be able to understand because he's a man.
(c) Yell angrily and treat him as if he is personally to blame for every bad thing any man has ever done to a woman.
(d) Calmly and without using accusatory language, explain the situation in a way the man may be able to empathize with.
 
A lot of women immediately go for a, b, and c then wonder why the men react defensively. A perfect example is something I like to call "the privilege bat." What is privilege? It's a real thing. It exists. Most people have some kind of privilege, yes, even women. All it means is that some people have advantages. Now, if I wanted to explain the concept to someone who did not understand it, there are basically two ways I can go about it- I can calmly and neutrally explain what privilege is without being accusatory and without demeaning his accomplishments, suffering, and hard work or I can come swinging at him with the Privilege Bat, accuse him of being an ignorant, privileged asshole who has never suffered and had everything handed to him on a silver platter because he's a white cis-het male shitlord. Too many people use the latter method of argument and it doesn't work. All it does is ensure the person you're attacking will only ever see you as the bad guy and will never give your argument earplay.

Anyway, I've rambled on long enough on this topic. I could go for pages and pages. XD As you can tell, it's a topic I feel very passionately about.

TL;DR: There's no damn sexism in your gallery. You're fine.

((Forgive me for any typos. I'm having a really hard time seeing today and even zooming in isn't helping much.))
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:iconcatcouch:
CatCouch Featured By Owner Jul 8, 2017  Professional Digital Artist
My biggest issue was gaining popularity from one type of fan art. Criticism of fan art is a little trickier in my opinion. I've had a few points where people weren't separating their feelings on the subject matter from my art. It sucks because it's a character they don't like or it sucks because it doesn't do justice to a character they like. Those can still be fun conversations though.

As for the sexism stuff, I really agree with the the part about how both sides tend not to listen and understand the legitimate views of each side. Video games are just insane on this. I don't read gaming news sites too often now due to how big of an issue the feminism fight has become.

I'm all for discussing art. More representation for women? Yes please! I always play as a woman in games, if given the chance. Always!

I just don't think it anyone should be trying to morally police art, especially if it's because of ulterior motives and not natural critique of a subject or medium. Again, look at games for a good example. There's lots of "games are sexist" article from people who clearly don't play games. The worst part is how disagreeing with them gets you labelled a misogynist or something. It seems to be the M. O. of a certain side of progressive politics. Where are all the other voices in these discussions? I rarely see counterpoints being made.

I posted a summary of what happened with the person who wrote about taking pleasure from women contorted in pain in a reply above this one. That should explain why it sticks out to me still, it wasn't a one or two comment exchange, it was long and stupid, just how the internet likes it!

Anyway, the whole privilege thing gets out of hand quickly, too. I always thought of it being like a cudgel used to bludgeon people for asking questions. A bat might make more sense as it seems some people literally wield them at places like Ever Green State College when these issues arise. Bats are probably easier to acquire than cudgels.

White privilege is the most common bat bludgeon topic I see. There's a ton of stupid topics used to silence those who disagree, though. How did this get so out of hand? I mean, ideas like the "progressive stack" should not be making past the drawing board. At least it led to this humorous comic. Silver linings!

imgur.com/QQQ0Org
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:iconbjpentecost:
BJPentecost Featured By Owner Jul 8, 2017  Professional Digital Artist
I am thoroughly, unapologetically, without hesitation, a proud progressive very liberal libertarian. I'm not going to let the fact that there are idiots in my ranks deter me from what I believe. But goddamn do these idiots make us look bad. All I can say is that we're not all like that. we're not all a bunch of Anita Sarkeezians.

As to women in games, I get where both sides are coming from. I don't want to see games policed into a PC stalemate either. I believe game devs should have the creative freedom to do as they please. At the same time, the industry still struggles in regards to portraying female characters, though, many excellent strides have been made recently that, personally, I find very pleasing (Horizon Zero Dawn being a great example). At the end of the day, I'm not against scantily clad big-tittied nymphs in games but I am very much in favor of more variety of female characters.
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:iconcatcouch:
CatCouch Featured By Owner Jul 8, 2017  Professional Digital Artist
I'm a pretty damn progressive liberal myself, lived most of my life in California (with a little stint in Mexico) and have had family that worked in magazines in San Fransisco. You don't get more progressive than San Francisco! I almost always fall on the liberal side of issues, including women rights, gay marriage and all that. I voted for legalizing gay marriage in 2008 when it came up in CA. I constantly talk about wanting women in games, more variety being the goal. I stand up for games like Gone Home when they get bashed, same with Horizon. I tell people to calm it down with the feminist bashing on forums.

Even with all of that I'm still treated like trash when I talk to certain types of people on the progressive side. It's never good enough seems to be the problem. I need to agree 100% of the time or else I'm a whiny, loser male who can't understand how much harm I'm doing by existing. Asking questions and trying to engage in debate can now be harassment, somehow. I think more respected people (people in the press) need to step up and start countering these rather extreme views. It really needs debate to be healthy.

My real beef with these stances stem from the belief that the art on DA, in games, comics or whatever, really hurt people. The world can only be at peace if we forcibly beat people into accepting one narrow view of far left politics. I often see rape brought up. Statistics on spousal abuse and molestation. Am I supposed to believe that violence in games doesn't affect people but scantily clad women does?

By going down that road we end up here where nothing is good enough. Uncharted Lost Legacy? The guardian took issue with one of the woman being half white. Horizon: Zero Dawn? Offensive to native Americans. Dishonored 2 got criticized for having a male playable character, it apparently should only have women. I have a hard time seeing how we'll achieve greater diversity by pushing to lessen white people and men in games.

Why is it so hard to believe that people might want both strong independent women and sexy half-naked women? I want more sexy half-naked men in my games, too! Give me sexy furry art and I'll be just as happy to draw porn of them! Hmm, I wonder how these same people react to the sexual male furry art? Anyway, we need to branch out and have more sexuality in games, not less by shaming it. It kind of goes against human nature, you know?
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:iconbjpentecost:
BJPentecost Featured By Owner Jul 8, 2017  Professional Digital Artist
I couldn't agree more.  
 
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